What a great idea Judy. Naturally my go to area is young children/teachers in schools (raising awareness of misunderstandings, metacognition, intrinsic motivation, goal setting, classroom culture and an independent learning/self organising groups).
This will have no this a resource that would warrant a fee for access. I have little experience in this area. I’ll mull over the idea of paying and send over a ballpark figure.
The money think this will be a valuable resource for many people. xx
Thanks Julie! Your education focus is exactly why this curation challenge matters - you have such rich, specific applications (metacognition, classroom culture, self-organising groups) that would resonate powerfully with teachers and parents - but might not resonate so much with, say, small business people in a networking group.
No rush on the pricing thoughts - I'm genuinely curious what feels reasonable to practitioners like you. The fact that you see value in it is the important bit right now for me.
I look forward to the ideas our tech minded friends might have for this. Having done battle with making a custom gpt for the first time - and quite enjoyed it, but wasted a lot of time, I am reminded that expertise is a very useful thing! (The gpt is for people learning with us, it curates Judy's 'stuff' and is just so good at giving examples and context for learners in her authentic voice, as it includes only her sole authored original material. Still not perfect so techie friends who want to give some advice I am open to it!)
I’ve definitely run into the “too many good stories, not sure which one to tell” problem. And it’s not just about volume,it’s about timing, audience, and tone. What lands with a team leader trying to fix retention won’t land with a CFO who just wants numbers.
I think the curated library idea is solid. But I’d go even further: what about framing stories by objection? Like, “We don’t have time for this,” “We already do coaching,” or “How is this different from X?” That way, users could pick stories that directly counter resistance, not just fit audience type.
Also, if you’re thinking about monetization, maybe tiered access could work,free search with teaser summaries, paid access for full case materials, slides, or interview clips. Most people don’t mind paying if they can immediately plug something into a presentation or proposal.
What you’re building isn’t just a database. It’s a persuasive tool.
Thanks @Blanca, super useful ideas there. And, I notice that - about 15 years on from the row that happened when I named a Clean-based course "Intelligent Influence" - I'm still having a strong emotional reaction to the idea of creating a persuasive tool. Something inside me is still going, "But can that really be OK when what we're selling is Clean?"
You are right. Actually, there is no need to convince anyone. Some topics are a waste of time to continue discussing. It is better to give yourself more time to enjoy life.
When holding a workshop for Clean Language in IT at a meetup in Frankfurt, I was asked if there is any research on Clean Language. I think such a database would be a valuable go-to resource.
And, when people ask this question they are often asking for "social proof", for which the case studies stack would really help.
Talking to you earlier reminded me that "does this work in my context?" has a language aspect, too. There was a time when some people believed that Clean Language couldn't work in German because of the position of the verb in the sentence. Now, people know it *does* work, at least in business and other conversational contexts (the "hypnotic" context is a whole other discussion).
Suggestion: keep it super lightweight, low friction, easy to add to; build it on top of something free. This would establish yourself more broadly and give you free marketing. Would it work to make it free for you? If not, keep it super low cost $ 1 or $2 per month?
To get started, make a simple list of the articles you have, and ask for volunteers to load them unless you can make a script quickly
AI is sufficiently advanced that it’s worth starting there. It seems that you will need the upgraded, non free version of notebook LM.
Initially resist the urge to write a review for each; a nice feature is user up voting; build a community
Thanks Glenn. I've been looking into potential AI tools and haven't found anything free that will do what I'm looking for. So the curated product can be low cost, but it can't be free.
It's quite interesting how things that you'd think would be super easy for AI, like bundling a bunch of articles and making a list of titles, turn out to be insanely complicated once you have content volume - and that means there's cost involved.
What kind of "establish yourself more broadly"?
I'm quite happy with how established I am in the Clean Language community after 20 years. I'm mostly no longer up for doing things for exposure or free marketing. apart from the odd session at an interesting-looking meetup or conference.
But I am committed to getting Clean Language "out there' especially in healthcare, and to supporting other advocates. I think this case study curation - getting the stuff into a system and tagging it - could be a good way of doing that.
- you feed NotebookLM (or similar) all your papers so you can ask the AI questions about them? (Including the one you proposed: a paper for such or such situation or client)
- you start asking questions about what connects those papers? What categories could they fit in? What connects each category to the other ones?
- you ask an AI about the best ways to share those studies and their insights, possibly behind an AI to help with the querying, and how to build that sharing? You might ask the same AI to which you uploaded the papers in the first point, so it has maximum context ;)
Thanks Nicholas, that was the kind of thing I had in mind - though it would presumably help if everything was in nice, tidy typewritten papers that I owned the rights to, rather than spread all over the internet in all sorts of scrappy forms, including plenty of audio and video :-)
What a great idea Judy. Naturally my go to area is young children/teachers in schools (raising awareness of misunderstandings, metacognition, intrinsic motivation, goal setting, classroom culture and an independent learning/self organising groups).
This will have no this a resource that would warrant a fee for access. I have little experience in this area. I’ll mull over the idea of paying and send over a ballpark figure.
The money think this will be a valuable resource for many people. xx
Thanks Julie! Your education focus is exactly why this curation challenge matters - you have such rich, specific applications (metacognition, classroom culture, self-organising groups) that would resonate powerfully with teachers and parents - but might not resonate so much with, say, small business people in a networking group.
No rush on the pricing thoughts - I'm genuinely curious what feels reasonable to practitioners like you. The fact that you see value in it is the important bit right now for me.
Excellent post Judy. I love the wheel and the resources you have so diligently gathered through the years!
I look forward to the ideas our tech minded friends might have for this. Having done battle with making a custom gpt for the first time - and quite enjoyed it, but wasted a lot of time, I am reminded that expertise is a very useful thing! (The gpt is for people learning with us, it curates Judy's 'stuff' and is just so good at giving examples and context for learners in her authentic voice, as it includes only her sole authored original material. Still not perfect so techie friends who want to give some advice I am open to it!)
I’ve definitely run into the “too many good stories, not sure which one to tell” problem. And it’s not just about volume,it’s about timing, audience, and tone. What lands with a team leader trying to fix retention won’t land with a CFO who just wants numbers.
I think the curated library idea is solid. But I’d go even further: what about framing stories by objection? Like, “We don’t have time for this,” “We already do coaching,” or “How is this different from X?” That way, users could pick stories that directly counter resistance, not just fit audience type.
Also, if you’re thinking about monetization, maybe tiered access could work,free search with teaser summaries, paid access for full case materials, slides, or interview clips. Most people don’t mind paying if they can immediately plug something into a presentation or proposal.
What you’re building isn’t just a database. It’s a persuasive tool.
Thanks @Blanca, super useful ideas there. And, I notice that - about 15 years on from the row that happened when I named a Clean-based course "Intelligent Influence" - I'm still having a strong emotional reaction to the idea of creating a persuasive tool. Something inside me is still going, "But can that really be OK when what we're selling is Clean?"
Haha, I’m not really an expert in this field either. So if I get anything wrong, feel free to set me straight.
No, no! I'm just noticing that I have an interesting response to your comment - and interesting is good.
The Clean world has had many a late-night argument on this very topic: is it code-congruent to "persuade" anyone to use Clean?
IWhen it comes down to it, I think I still feel the same as I did back in 2012: https://judyrees.substack.com/p/clean-language-and-influence :-)
You are right. Actually, there is no need to convince anyone. Some topics are a waste of time to continue discussing. It is better to give yourself more time to enjoy life.
When holding a workshop for Clean Language in IT at a meetup in Frankfurt, I was asked if there is any research on Clean Language. I think such a database would be a valuable go-to resource.
Thanks Tobias! There's loads of research on CL (as well as using CL). The best resource for academic stuff is James Lawley's list here: https://cleanlanguage.com/publications-using-david-grove-ideas/ and/or the Clean Language Interviewing book.
And, when people ask this question they are often asking for "social proof", for which the case studies stack would really help.
Talking to you earlier reminded me that "does this work in my context?" has a language aspect, too. There was a time when some people believed that Clean Language couldn't work in German because of the position of the verb in the sentence. Now, people know it *does* work, at least in business and other conversational contexts (the "hypnotic" context is a whole other discussion).
Suggestion: keep it super lightweight, low friction, easy to add to; build it on top of something free. This would establish yourself more broadly and give you free marketing. Would it work to make it free for you? If not, keep it super low cost $ 1 or $2 per month?
To get started, make a simple list of the articles you have, and ask for volunteers to load them unless you can make a script quickly
AI is sufficiently advanced that it’s worth starting there. It seems that you will need the upgraded, non free version of notebook LM.
Initially resist the urge to write a review for each; a nice feature is user up voting; build a community
Thanks Glenn. I've been looking into potential AI tools and haven't found anything free that will do what I'm looking for. So the curated product can be low cost, but it can't be free.
It's quite interesting how things that you'd think would be super easy for AI, like bundling a bunch of articles and making a list of titles, turn out to be insanely complicated once you have content volume - and that means there's cost involved.
What kind of "establish yourself more broadly"?
I'm quite happy with how established I am in the Clean Language community after 20 years. I'm mostly no longer up for doing things for exposure or free marketing. apart from the odd session at an interesting-looking meetup or conference.
But I am committed to getting Clean Language "out there' especially in healthcare, and to supporting other advocates. I think this case study curation - getting the stuff into a system and tagging it - could be a good way of doing that.
What if...
- you feed NotebookLM (or similar) all your papers so you can ask the AI questions about them? (Including the one you proposed: a paper for such or such situation or client)
- you start asking questions about what connects those papers? What categories could they fit in? What connects each category to the other ones?
- you ask an AI about the best ways to share those studies and their insights, possibly behind an AI to help with the querying, and how to build that sharing? You might ask the same AI to which you uploaded the papers in the first point, so it has maximum context ;)
Thanks Nicholas, that was the kind of thing I had in mind - though it would presumably help if everything was in nice, tidy typewritten papers that I owned the rights to, rather than spread all over the internet in all sorts of scrappy forms, including plenty of audio and video :-)
I'm quite sure those IA can be fed documents or links ;)